n.peckdd Posted June 28, 2009 Report Posted June 28, 2009 Hello All, Other than the battery & starter motor what would prevent the starter from turning over?I have access to all the relays with spares to swap but my new brand stater fails to turn over!!! Thanks in advance. Paul Quote
n.peckdd Posted June 28, 2009 Author Report Posted June 28, 2009 Forgot to mention its a 1999 2.3 petrol Quote
sparky Paul Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Forgot to mention its a 1999 2.3 petrol According to TIS, fuse F26 (30A) is for the starting circuit, so I would check that. Auto or manual gearbox? Auto has a starter inhibit switch, which is mounted on the gear lever, under the centre console. Finally, I'm not 100%, but from the electrical schematics (Galaxy 98-00) it looks like the petrol car will not actually turn over if the immobiliser is not deactivated, so you may have to investigate that possibility. First thing to do is try another key. Whilst other stuff will stop the car from running, there's nothing else which will actually stop the starter from turning as far as I can see, apart from something basic like a faulty starter switch or a broken wire, etc.. Hope this helps! :D Edited June 29, 2009 by sparky Paul Quote
Guest brooksie Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 What about relay 30?I'm having the same problem intermittently on my 2002 2.3 petrol Gal, I have checked all the loom and starter connections but I'm suspecting the immobiliser now.Anyone else seen this problem before?Brooksie Quote
n.peckdd Posted June 29, 2009 Author Report Posted June 29, 2009 Thanks for the advice. Its a manual gearbox model. What is TIS please? I'm working from the Haynes circuit diagrams (not very specific). R27( Fuel supply) & R26 (Starter power relay) in the handbook (Marked 30 & 100) have been replaced. Starter motor is brand new bosch item & battery is fine (even tried) jump leads from the wife's car! Still the starter only fires the bendix gear without actually turning the starter with any momentum?? Quote
frogeye Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) TIS is a pc/dvd style workshop manual I got one of ebay a few weeks ago - brilliant ebay TIS just Edited June 29, 2009 by frogeye Quote
sparky Paul Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Its a manual gearbox model. What is TIS please? I'm working from the Haynes circuit diagrams (not very specific). R27( Fuel supply) & R26 (Starter power relay) in the handbook (Marked 30 & 100) have been replaced. Starter motor is brand new bosch item & battery is fine (even tried) jump leads from the wife's car! Still the starter only fires the bendix gear without actually turning the starter with any momentum?? Manual gearbox simplifies matters. Haynes electrical diagrams are not ideal, IIRC they are of the earlier mk.1s, and incomplete. Yours is a later Mk.1 with the completely revised electrical system, similar to a mk.2. TIS is Ford's 'Technical Information System' which is a PC based service manual on CD. Only R26 will actually stop the starter cranking, and as this has been replaced, it should be okay. This is the relay controlled by the immobiliser, so that should rule that out too. As the solenoid is clicking, I would appear that the circuit to the starter is actually being made. As starter is attempting to engage, first thing I would now check is the battery-engine earth strap for a bad earth. Preferably check visually, or you can check with a voltmeter by measuring from battery -ve to engine whilst cranking, should read zero, or as near as. Failing that, assuming starter is good, you are looking at something daft like a faulty starter switch or bad contact somewhere, there isn't much else. Locate with a voltmeter, checking for a volt drop across switch contacts, etc., whilst cranking. According to TIS, circuit goes... battery +ve ---> starter switch N278 ---> fuse F26 ---> relay K191 (R26) ---> starter solenoid Hope this helps! Edited June 29, 2009 by sparky Paul Quote
big_kev Posted June 29, 2009 Report Posted June 29, 2009 Starter motor is brand new bosch item & battery is fine (even tried) jump leads from the wife's car! Still the starter only fires the bendix gear without actually turning the starter with any momentum?? Has this starter ever worked........is exactly the same model as the original Quote
n.peckdd Posted June 30, 2009 Author Report Posted June 30, 2009 Thanks for the very helpful & informative replies. I've ordered a TIS disc & bought a new battery (just to be sure). Will use jump leads as temporary earth leads & will let you know how I get on. No this starter although new has not turned the car over............ but it is the second one I've tried with the same symptoms (took the 1st one back when it crossed my mind to scrap the old Gal, but couldn't bring myself to do it, without a final rescue attempt!! Paul. Quote
n.peckdd Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Posted July 1, 2009 Just had a thought..... If I connect the starter direct to the battery - what should I expect to see? Bendix gear comes out and rotates about quater turn?? Paul. Quote
sparky Paul Posted July 1, 2009 Report Posted July 1, 2009 (edited) Just had a thought..... If I connect the starter direct to the battery - what should I expect to see? Bendix gear comes out and rotates about quater turn?? Paul. If you connect battery +ve to the small solenoid terminal, and the battery -ve to the motor casing (earth) - yes, the solenoid should push the gear out. If the large terminal is connected to the battery +ve, as it should be in the car, and the motor casing (earth) to battery -ve, the starter should spin as soon as you apply +ve to the solenoid too. Note that you will need decent sized cables and secure connections to make the starter spin. Edited July 1, 2009 by sparky Paul Quote
big_kev Posted July 1, 2009 Report Posted July 1, 2009 It sounds like the starter solenoid is not fully engaging. If the pinion gear is not fully inserted then the solenoid will not close its contacts and no power will be applied to the starter motor. Either you have the wrong starter motor or something is blocking the gear from being inserted. Is something stopping the pinion gear.......is it hitting the flywheel ( or is the ring gear on the flywheel broken ) or is there bits of the previous starter motors pinion gear in there ? Quote
n.peckdd Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Posted July 1, 2009 Thanks Paul, I've used jump leads connected as described & the motor spins up like a good un (not fitted to the car). Seems like I'm getting the same effect as if using solenoid power only ie bendix out but not turning over Quote
n.peckdd Posted July 1, 2009 Author Report Posted July 1, 2009 Have replicated the set up using jump leads with the starter fitted & the old gal is running again......................I'm delighted. A BIG thank you to ALL. I know there is still work to do but progress is progress Quote
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